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In this solo episode, host Shawn Yeager reflects on the first 12 episodes of Trust Revolution, expressing gratitude to listeners and sharing insights gained from conversations with various builders, thinkers, and leaders. The podcast aims to explore the erosion of trust in traditional institutions and the potential of decentralization and technology, such as Bitcoin, to restore personal sovereignty. Shawn discusses the importance of reaching those curious about alternative systems and highlights key themes like the diminishing trust in centralized entities and the promise of decentralized solutions.
Throughout the season, Shawn engaged with a diverse group of guests, including futurists, technologists, and policy advisors, to discuss topics ranging from private AI and alternative app stores to the implications of AI on society. He emphasizes the need for citizen action and transparency to challenge existing power structures and the role of technology in reshaping business and governance. As the podcast moves forward, Shawn plans to focus on conversations with builders and advocates who are leading the way in creating change and empowering individuals to reclaim control over their trust and privacy.
Subscribe at podcast.trustrevolution.co.
Music in this episode by More Ghost Than Man.
[00:00:04]
Shawn Yeager:
Hey, everybody. Shawn Yeager here recording a solo episode to do a bit of a recap of the first 12 episodes of Trust Revolution. But I first wanna thank you if you have spent some time, listened to the podcast. It's just beginning, and there are a lot of podcasts, great podcasts out there competing for your time and attention. So if you've invested some with me, I am grateful, and I appreciate it. When I began Trust Revolution, I had an idea that it was worth taking a lot of what certainly I benefited from, which is education information from some fantastic individuals who have taught about the importance of freedom technology broadly speaking, who've taught about the importance of Bitcoin most notably, but really have shown me and and that has in turn greatly enhanced my life what is possible when you take back ownership, you take back sovereignty over things like your money.
And that is hard to overstate. It's hard to overemphasize how meaningful that can be, how important that can be. What I want to do uniquely, I hope, with Trust Revolution is to reach out to those of you who may be on the bubble. And for those who are deep down the proverbial rabbit hole, I hope to be able to deliver something of value to you as well. But really, it's those who are curious, who have an idea, an inkling that something is not quite right and there must be a better way. And the theme, the title, certainly Trust Revolution and and what I've written so far to convey the purpose is that it really is about acknowledging that the traditional institutions, be they government, media, corporations, have largely lost our trust, and we can, you know, rake the, coals over with with regard to how badly it has been damaged.
But I think most of us, if we're reasonable, would would say that we just do not trust those institutions as maybe we used to, certainly as our parents used to, as previous generations used to, maybe that's a good thing. But on the bright side, there are tools and there are, assets, there's education, so much out there that we can use should we choose. And so in season one, what I hope I've accomplished is to present a pretty broad array of interesting conversations, certainly with people that have taught me a lot, ranging from builders like Marx and Fran, who respectively are tackling, private AI AI with with which we can share intimate details and know, certainly, cryptographically, certainly, that that information is is secure, is safe to, in the case of Fran, reimagining what an app store could be, which may in some ways sound trivial.
But, you know, as much as we we carry these things around and as much as we do with them, the way in which we are held captive largely by Apple and Google in terms of what we're allowed access to, something as simple as being able to pay for an application outside the rails, outside the realm of an Apple or Google, to being able to communicate in a way that we wish, to being able to say the things that we want, that has a really, really big impact on our day to day lives. We then have had conversations with futurists, Bronwyn Williams in South Africa to John Robb, who is a former special ops operator and author and strategist who has presented some really interesting ideas in episode one about networked tribes, networked swarms, really. And so, the idea that things are increasingly polarizing and that there are means of emphasizing a message that a particular tribe or swarm, or controlling party wishes to get across and that that is only going to be magnified and accelerated with AI.
To conversations with, gentleman by the name of Rashad Tabakawala, who is a global executive consultant and has a very particular perspective on what AI and other technologies, will do, what KYC looks like in the future, to, a government insider. My most recent conversation in episode 12 with Open State, who is a policy analyst and advisor, in a government. We don't we don't know which, but does, work advising on things like anti money laundering and KYC, which is a whole sort of basket of trouble that in many cases, does far more harm than good, and I think that that is a statement I can make that's backed by data.
So everywhere we look from our money to the devices we carry with us every day in our pockets, to the way our money moves, to the conversations we have individually and in groups, these are controlled, manipulated, assailed in some cases, certainly, surveilled. And so we have that as a backdrop. We have, for example, in my conversation with Matt O'Dell, who is a long time, Bitcoin advocate, educator, builder, investor, presented us with a number of options, but also presented, I think, us with a humbling assertion that, perhaps only 5% of individuals who could embrace things like Bitcoin will choose to do that, but that the choice is ours and we can.
So I can't say that there's been a straight line through these conversations, but it has absolutely been exploratory and I hope it's been valuable to you. Again, I know for me, what it has done is sort of put some pieces on the board, and created a sense of different perspectives from different angles and different roles and responsibilities, be it corporate to independent developer and hacker and builder. The themes that I see having come out, that I'll just, you know, talk about for a minute. The first is that trust is eroding, we know that, and that centralization is largely the culprit.
And so a theme of these conversations, a theme of, for example, the sorts of conversations that I might have on a daily or weekly basis at a place like Bitcoin Park, where I'm a member here in Nashville, are about decentralization, which is quite a buzzword, but I think it's one that's important to underscore in that many of the challenges that we face are in that so much of our technology, so much of our culture of our society has tended toward centralization. And there are many reasons for this and and there are many others who could speak more eloquently to it than I can, but that is just the state of affairs. And that in order to reclaim agency, in order to reclaim some of our own individual power, we need to turn away from that centralization which means making hard choices.
I will just illustrate that example. I after having iPhones since 02/2007, about a month ago, I personally made the switch to, a Google Pixel, irony not lost on me, running something called Graphene OS, which is a an alternative operating system that gives you immense control over how these apps communicate with each other, with the cloud, what data gets sent back to to whom. And is it easy? Is it trivial? No. As I mentioned on Noster today, privacy is a luxury good. I aspire, to be in a place where it is a commodity, but it's not. You know, I have the luxury of taking the time to set something like that up. I do appreciate that that is a luxury. I appreciate that that's a a benefit that I have. It is not going to be something everyone has the time to do, but the tools are there. So I use that just as an illustration is that, you know, this this centralizing nature of coming down to really two devices, be it an Apple or or a Google device running Android, that is an example.
The fact that so many of us turn to x Twitter, Facebook, depending on really your demographic, your age group, that is also tremendously centralizing. There are alternatives. Here again, Nostra, big fan, big user, big advocate, but it is choosing to, in some ways, leave behind these very, very large platforms and go somewhere where there is more freedom, where there is far, far, far less control. And, certainly, we think little to no surveillance going on, for example. So I think, you know, the the takeaway here is that in this first theme, trust is running, we know this. I I believe if you're watching, if you're bothering to watch this, you would agree. And the work to be done is to decentralize.
And and again, that's far harder said than done, but that is essentially the the theme in the work. The second is that okay. So great. We have these options to, in in many ways, decentralize communications, money, social media, identity. Talked with, doctor David Strayhorn who is a neurologist, but also has put has poured really ten years of blood, sweat, and tears into webs of trust. And that is to say, how do we create these emergent webs of relationships with individuals for whom we trust or that we trust in particular context. And so I trust Bob to be able to make, great recommendations about where to stay in a particular city. I trust Alice to advise me on how to invest my money. Whatever these these examples might be, the point is we can, take back this, trust and place it in the hands of those that we choose based on certain algorithms and and and data that we have access to and that is very transparent. So that's an example of a tool of an option of a choice we can make, but there's promise and there's peril. Peril in the sense maybe overstating it that it's tough. It's tough. It's time consuming.
It is nontrivial to make these choices. It's nontrivial to become educated and equipped to self custody your money in the case of Bitcoin. But, again, incredibly valuable, and I could go on for hours about why that is, but I wanna keep this sort of high level. So that second theme, you know, again, is that, yes, there are tremendous options. There there's great promise, but it is surprising to me to find in some of these conversations that many of these technologies are looked at as simply too nascent, too geeky, too out on the fringe by some of the folks that I've spoken with in the first 12 episodes.
It doesn't surprise me, but I was hoping to be, pleasantly surprised. But I think it's a it's a good humbling reminder of how early we are. But again, for those who choose to make these these changes, the the options are there and they're powerful. Another theme that I pulled out is that citizen action and transparency that we can bring about through this action is the kind of resistance that I think is going to be most powerful in bringing about change in institutions. And this is largely through my most recent conversation with Open State, the pseudonymous civil servant that I mentioned. He reminded us that I that, you know, it's not just pull out this piece of technology, it's not just use signal, for your for your conversations, your chats, it's going to be freedom of information requests, it's going to be putting pressure on elected officials.
Can we do the same in media? Can we do the same thing for corporations? Obviously, it works a bit differently, but I think we can if we choose to. And that that inaction is is our greatest enemy. I'm just as guilty as anyone. But it was a it was a great takeaway for me that to simply shine light on, the dark corners where a lot of the creeping surveillance and a lot of the trickery happens is is a tremendous tool at our disposal should we should we choose to use it. Another conversation with Yael Asowski, who is deputy director at the Consumers Choice Center, is to remind us that in so much of the legislative work that organizations like his do, It is not to convince the government to permit us to do something. It is to restrain the government, and there too is a great reminder of the power that we have, that we are by design given, at least certainly in Western democracies and and representative, governments, that we do have that power, you know, should we choose to exercise it, which I think is is the critical piece.
Another theme is the business and economic shifts that are happening in this world where trust is is diminished and and shrinking. I think that erosion is reshaping work, reshaping business. These particular guests, thinking about Rashad and Bronwyn, showed that centralized models dominate because they're profitable, and that's no surprise, but it's, again, good to underscore, the cracks, you know, are are are forming, and I think that there are real challengers. AI, which is a central theme and it is not surprising because it is everywhere all the time, that will make or break some of these corporations, some of these governments. It will, you know, deepfakes these thirty, sixty, hundred and twenty second videos that you can now create through Google v o three are, to my eyes, indistinguishable from reality. I think the vast majority of individuals would not be able to call out what is now AI generated versus real.
That is horrifying in some ways, but I think it's going to force, you know, much as much as literacy became a critical skill, much as media literacy became critical perhaps in the nineties and February, I think this new level of, let's call it AI literacy, will be crucial, not only for the workforce, but for individuals. And perhaps in a situation where we cannot simply and blindly trust what our eyes see, we will need to dig deeper. We'll need to look at things like cryptographically, signed media that we have authenticity guaranteed or rather, presented to us. We have attribution, that we can check and verify. So here too, don't trust, verify. I think that's that's the theme here.
So with that, I'm I'm jumping around a bit, but the idea is just to present what I took away from these first 12 conversations. And so when I set out to begin Trust Revolution, as I say, it was really to reach out to those of you who may be on the bubble. I hope it's given you some some food for thought. I hope it's given you some some tools and techniques to pursue this first season, as as I'll call it. Really, the idea of a season is somewhat arbitrary given that it's a new podcast and that it is a broad, broader theme. You know, it's not a it's not a, sort of a story driven, season where you would be able to have natural break points. But the idea for me is to put some bookmarks on it and to say, okay. These first 12 episodes, these were discovery and these were exploratory. And, certainly, as I say, it's been great for me. I've learned a lot. I hope it's been good and valuable for you, but I think what it has done is this. It has shown me that what is most promising and what's most interesting for me to pursue, and I hope in turn that will come through in in in, you know, greater episodes and and greater value, is to focus on the builders, the advocates, the cheerleaders, those who are showing the way to how we make change, how we take back control of what we trust, who we trust, what gets exposed about us to those who would presume to demand that we trust them.
That to me is is a particularly interesting sort of sub thread. And so what I wanna do going ahead is to double down there. And so the conversations I'll be having, the individuals that I'll be reaching out to to have these conversations with will be people who are pushing policy changes, people who are building alternatives, people who are educating and showing the way with emphasis on translating this, you know, not going so deep that it's it's it's bewildering. But starting with why. Why does this matter? What are we attempting to address? And then highlighting some of the tools, the technologies, and the changes that we can make.
My closing and really single request in addition to thanking you for your time, and I I really do mean that, is let me know. Let me know who I should talk to. It's, new. It's a new production. It's a new podcast. And so a lot of the outreach have done, you win some, you lose some. There've been some great folks that I've been hoping to speak with that I haven't heard back, from yet at least. Conversely, for example, and I'm holding this fantastic book by Cory Doctorow, who I have followed for probably twenty years, and I'm really excited to speak with Corey later in the year. He coined this term. He's got some long standing, fascinating perspectives on the harm that things like digital rights management have done in total when, you know, in a narrow scope, they've been promised and sold to us as saving industries.
So, again, if you have ideas about individuals you'd like for me to speak with, if you have folks that are lesser known that, are doing great work, as I say, in advocacy, education, building, who are going to make changes or rather, you know, enable us to make changes in who we trust and and how we trust, then I'd love to hear from you. And you could do that by finding me on noster at trust rev, by emailing me hello at trust revolution dot c o, or just go to trust revolution dot co. So thanks again, everyone. I look forward to bringing you some great, great episodes coming up very soon. I expect that season two will kick off by early August, but, follow on Noster.
Follow on YouTube at TrustRev and trustrevolution.substack.com. Thanks. Talk to you soon.
Hey, everybody. Shawn Yeager here recording a solo episode to do a bit of a recap of the first 12 episodes of Trust Revolution. But I first wanna thank you if you have spent some time, listened to the podcast. It's just beginning, and there are a lot of podcasts, great podcasts out there competing for your time and attention. So if you've invested some with me, I am grateful, and I appreciate it. When I began Trust Revolution, I had an idea that it was worth taking a lot of what certainly I benefited from, which is education information from some fantastic individuals who have taught about the importance of freedom technology broadly speaking, who've taught about the importance of Bitcoin most notably, but really have shown me and and that has in turn greatly enhanced my life what is possible when you take back ownership, you take back sovereignty over things like your money.
And that is hard to overstate. It's hard to overemphasize how meaningful that can be, how important that can be. What I want to do uniquely, I hope, with Trust Revolution is to reach out to those of you who may be on the bubble. And for those who are deep down the proverbial rabbit hole, I hope to be able to deliver something of value to you as well. But really, it's those who are curious, who have an idea, an inkling that something is not quite right and there must be a better way. And the theme, the title, certainly Trust Revolution and and what I've written so far to convey the purpose is that it really is about acknowledging that the traditional institutions, be they government, media, corporations, have largely lost our trust, and we can, you know, rake the, coals over with with regard to how badly it has been damaged.
But I think most of us, if we're reasonable, would would say that we just do not trust those institutions as maybe we used to, certainly as our parents used to, as previous generations used to, maybe that's a good thing. But on the bright side, there are tools and there are, assets, there's education, so much out there that we can use should we choose. And so in season one, what I hope I've accomplished is to present a pretty broad array of interesting conversations, certainly with people that have taught me a lot, ranging from builders like Marx and Fran, who respectively are tackling, private AI AI with with which we can share intimate details and know, certainly, cryptographically, certainly, that that information is is secure, is safe to, in the case of Fran, reimagining what an app store could be, which may in some ways sound trivial.
But, you know, as much as we we carry these things around and as much as we do with them, the way in which we are held captive largely by Apple and Google in terms of what we're allowed access to, something as simple as being able to pay for an application outside the rails, outside the realm of an Apple or Google, to being able to communicate in a way that we wish, to being able to say the things that we want, that has a really, really big impact on our day to day lives. We then have had conversations with futurists, Bronwyn Williams in South Africa to John Robb, who is a former special ops operator and author and strategist who has presented some really interesting ideas in episode one about networked tribes, networked swarms, really. And so, the idea that things are increasingly polarizing and that there are means of emphasizing a message that a particular tribe or swarm, or controlling party wishes to get across and that that is only going to be magnified and accelerated with AI.
To conversations with, gentleman by the name of Rashad Tabakawala, who is a global executive consultant and has a very particular perspective on what AI and other technologies, will do, what KYC looks like in the future, to, a government insider. My most recent conversation in episode 12 with Open State, who is a policy analyst and advisor, in a government. We don't we don't know which, but does, work advising on things like anti money laundering and KYC, which is a whole sort of basket of trouble that in many cases, does far more harm than good, and I think that that is a statement I can make that's backed by data.
So everywhere we look from our money to the devices we carry with us every day in our pockets, to the way our money moves, to the conversations we have individually and in groups, these are controlled, manipulated, assailed in some cases, certainly, surveilled. And so we have that as a backdrop. We have, for example, in my conversation with Matt O'Dell, who is a long time, Bitcoin advocate, educator, builder, investor, presented us with a number of options, but also presented, I think, us with a humbling assertion that, perhaps only 5% of individuals who could embrace things like Bitcoin will choose to do that, but that the choice is ours and we can.
So I can't say that there's been a straight line through these conversations, but it has absolutely been exploratory and I hope it's been valuable to you. Again, I know for me, what it has done is sort of put some pieces on the board, and created a sense of different perspectives from different angles and different roles and responsibilities, be it corporate to independent developer and hacker and builder. The themes that I see having come out, that I'll just, you know, talk about for a minute. The first is that trust is eroding, we know that, and that centralization is largely the culprit.
And so a theme of these conversations, a theme of, for example, the sorts of conversations that I might have on a daily or weekly basis at a place like Bitcoin Park, where I'm a member here in Nashville, are about decentralization, which is quite a buzzword, but I think it's one that's important to underscore in that many of the challenges that we face are in that so much of our technology, so much of our culture of our society has tended toward centralization. And there are many reasons for this and and there are many others who could speak more eloquently to it than I can, but that is just the state of affairs. And that in order to reclaim agency, in order to reclaim some of our own individual power, we need to turn away from that centralization which means making hard choices.
I will just illustrate that example. I after having iPhones since 02/2007, about a month ago, I personally made the switch to, a Google Pixel, irony not lost on me, running something called Graphene OS, which is a an alternative operating system that gives you immense control over how these apps communicate with each other, with the cloud, what data gets sent back to to whom. And is it easy? Is it trivial? No. As I mentioned on Noster today, privacy is a luxury good. I aspire, to be in a place where it is a commodity, but it's not. You know, I have the luxury of taking the time to set something like that up. I do appreciate that that is a luxury. I appreciate that that's a a benefit that I have. It is not going to be something everyone has the time to do, but the tools are there. So I use that just as an illustration is that, you know, this this centralizing nature of coming down to really two devices, be it an Apple or or a Google device running Android, that is an example.
The fact that so many of us turn to x Twitter, Facebook, depending on really your demographic, your age group, that is also tremendously centralizing. There are alternatives. Here again, Nostra, big fan, big user, big advocate, but it is choosing to, in some ways, leave behind these very, very large platforms and go somewhere where there is more freedom, where there is far, far, far less control. And, certainly, we think little to no surveillance going on, for example. So I think, you know, the the takeaway here is that in this first theme, trust is running, we know this. I I believe if you're watching, if you're bothering to watch this, you would agree. And the work to be done is to decentralize.
And and again, that's far harder said than done, but that is essentially the the theme in the work. The second is that okay. So great. We have these options to, in in many ways, decentralize communications, money, social media, identity. Talked with, doctor David Strayhorn who is a neurologist, but also has put has poured really ten years of blood, sweat, and tears into webs of trust. And that is to say, how do we create these emergent webs of relationships with individuals for whom we trust or that we trust in particular context. And so I trust Bob to be able to make, great recommendations about where to stay in a particular city. I trust Alice to advise me on how to invest my money. Whatever these these examples might be, the point is we can, take back this, trust and place it in the hands of those that we choose based on certain algorithms and and and data that we have access to and that is very transparent. So that's an example of a tool of an option of a choice we can make, but there's promise and there's peril. Peril in the sense maybe overstating it that it's tough. It's tough. It's time consuming.
It is nontrivial to make these choices. It's nontrivial to become educated and equipped to self custody your money in the case of Bitcoin. But, again, incredibly valuable, and I could go on for hours about why that is, but I wanna keep this sort of high level. So that second theme, you know, again, is that, yes, there are tremendous options. There there's great promise, but it is surprising to me to find in some of these conversations that many of these technologies are looked at as simply too nascent, too geeky, too out on the fringe by some of the folks that I've spoken with in the first 12 episodes.
It doesn't surprise me, but I was hoping to be, pleasantly surprised. But I think it's a it's a good humbling reminder of how early we are. But again, for those who choose to make these these changes, the the options are there and they're powerful. Another theme that I pulled out is that citizen action and transparency that we can bring about through this action is the kind of resistance that I think is going to be most powerful in bringing about change in institutions. And this is largely through my most recent conversation with Open State, the pseudonymous civil servant that I mentioned. He reminded us that I that, you know, it's not just pull out this piece of technology, it's not just use signal, for your for your conversations, your chats, it's going to be freedom of information requests, it's going to be putting pressure on elected officials.
Can we do the same in media? Can we do the same thing for corporations? Obviously, it works a bit differently, but I think we can if we choose to. And that that inaction is is our greatest enemy. I'm just as guilty as anyone. But it was a it was a great takeaway for me that to simply shine light on, the dark corners where a lot of the creeping surveillance and a lot of the trickery happens is is a tremendous tool at our disposal should we should we choose to use it. Another conversation with Yael Asowski, who is deputy director at the Consumers Choice Center, is to remind us that in so much of the legislative work that organizations like his do, It is not to convince the government to permit us to do something. It is to restrain the government, and there too is a great reminder of the power that we have, that we are by design given, at least certainly in Western democracies and and representative, governments, that we do have that power, you know, should we choose to exercise it, which I think is is the critical piece.
Another theme is the business and economic shifts that are happening in this world where trust is is diminished and and shrinking. I think that erosion is reshaping work, reshaping business. These particular guests, thinking about Rashad and Bronwyn, showed that centralized models dominate because they're profitable, and that's no surprise, but it's, again, good to underscore, the cracks, you know, are are are forming, and I think that there are real challengers. AI, which is a central theme and it is not surprising because it is everywhere all the time, that will make or break some of these corporations, some of these governments. It will, you know, deepfakes these thirty, sixty, hundred and twenty second videos that you can now create through Google v o three are, to my eyes, indistinguishable from reality. I think the vast majority of individuals would not be able to call out what is now AI generated versus real.
That is horrifying in some ways, but I think it's going to force, you know, much as much as literacy became a critical skill, much as media literacy became critical perhaps in the nineties and February, I think this new level of, let's call it AI literacy, will be crucial, not only for the workforce, but for individuals. And perhaps in a situation where we cannot simply and blindly trust what our eyes see, we will need to dig deeper. We'll need to look at things like cryptographically, signed media that we have authenticity guaranteed or rather, presented to us. We have attribution, that we can check and verify. So here too, don't trust, verify. I think that's that's the theme here.
So with that, I'm I'm jumping around a bit, but the idea is just to present what I took away from these first 12 conversations. And so when I set out to begin Trust Revolution, as I say, it was really to reach out to those of you who may be on the bubble. I hope it's given you some some food for thought. I hope it's given you some some tools and techniques to pursue this first season, as as I'll call it. Really, the idea of a season is somewhat arbitrary given that it's a new podcast and that it is a broad, broader theme. You know, it's not a it's not a, sort of a story driven, season where you would be able to have natural break points. But the idea for me is to put some bookmarks on it and to say, okay. These first 12 episodes, these were discovery and these were exploratory. And, certainly, as I say, it's been great for me. I've learned a lot. I hope it's been good and valuable for you, but I think what it has done is this. It has shown me that what is most promising and what's most interesting for me to pursue, and I hope in turn that will come through in in in, you know, greater episodes and and greater value, is to focus on the builders, the advocates, the cheerleaders, those who are showing the way to how we make change, how we take back control of what we trust, who we trust, what gets exposed about us to those who would presume to demand that we trust them.
That to me is is a particularly interesting sort of sub thread. And so what I wanna do going ahead is to double down there. And so the conversations I'll be having, the individuals that I'll be reaching out to to have these conversations with will be people who are pushing policy changes, people who are building alternatives, people who are educating and showing the way with emphasis on translating this, you know, not going so deep that it's it's it's bewildering. But starting with why. Why does this matter? What are we attempting to address? And then highlighting some of the tools, the technologies, and the changes that we can make.
My closing and really single request in addition to thanking you for your time, and I I really do mean that, is let me know. Let me know who I should talk to. It's, new. It's a new production. It's a new podcast. And so a lot of the outreach have done, you win some, you lose some. There've been some great folks that I've been hoping to speak with that I haven't heard back, from yet at least. Conversely, for example, and I'm holding this fantastic book by Cory Doctorow, who I have followed for probably twenty years, and I'm really excited to speak with Corey later in the year. He coined this term. He's got some long standing, fascinating perspectives on the harm that things like digital rights management have done in total when, you know, in a narrow scope, they've been promised and sold to us as saving industries.
So, again, if you have ideas about individuals you'd like for me to speak with, if you have folks that are lesser known that, are doing great work, as I say, in advocacy, education, building, who are going to make changes or rather, you know, enable us to make changes in who we trust and and how we trust, then I'd love to hear from you. And you could do that by finding me on noster at trust rev, by emailing me hello at trust revolution dot c o, or just go to trust revolution dot co. So thanks again, everyone. I look forward to bringing you some great, great episodes coming up very soon. I expect that season two will kick off by early August, but, follow on Noster.
Follow on YouTube at TrustRev and trustrevolution.substack.com. Thanks. Talk to you soon.
